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StatChat Live with Dr. Gary W.
Phillips
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Hi, and welcome to today's
StatChat about the NAEP "1999 Trends in Academic Progress."
Let's get right to your
questions... |
| John from Reading, MA asked: |
| As more states are
moving to their own "state education frameworks" and are testing
proficiency against those frameworks (which are different like
snowflakes), how would you suggest that we could "roll up" this
state data for a more detailed skills picture, nationally?
Follow-up: Do you see less participation in the NAEP as schools
spend more of their testing time on their respective state testing
programs? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for raising this issue. I think
there is a common misperception that somehow you can get a national
average from combining data from State testing programs. You cannot
aggregate state testing results to see a national picture of student
achievement. NAEP's role has been to provide a common yardstick for
the nation overall to see how well students are doing in various
subjects. By having this common national measure, states are free to
fashion testing programs that fit their particular
needs. |
| Carol from Nacogdoches, TX asked: |
| What are our goals in
education? That everyone maximize potential, everyone reach a
certain level of competence (what is this level and who decides /
assesses)... Who is responsible for this learning? Teachers,
Parents, Students, Community... Which students are/are not making
progress? Why? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
This is a good question but does not
apply to NCES. NCES does not set education goals. By conducting
NAEP, NCES simply measures student achievement. NAEP has played a
prominent role in documenting our nation's progress toward the
national education goals that were formalized by the National Goals
Panel in the 1990s. NAGB, the NAEP policy board, approaches the
expectations we have about student performance in terms of Basic,
Proficient, and Advanced performance standards.
|
| Dr. Georgia Williams-Scaife from Arlington, Virginia
asked: |
| As a result of our
students' poor showing on the TIMSS, e.g., blame was placed on the
fact that the curriculum in U.S. schools is "an inch deep and a mile
long". Do the NAEP results imply the same kind of problem? If not,
what appears to be the difference? If so what new practices, i.e.
testing and/or curriculum, have surfaced that appear to be turning
this around? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks. This was a great question! NAEP
has not undertaken a major study of curriculum materials used in
U.S. classrooms, which was the case in TIMSS 1995. In fact, TIMSS
included a number of components: assessments, questionnaires, a
video study of 8th grade mathematics teaching, case studies of
educational policy issues, and a curriculum study. The statement
about "an inch deep and a mile wide" was not a statement from the
TIMSS study, but was made by an independent researcher in his study.
The comment about the depth and breadth of the curriculum in U.S.
schools was made in regard to that specific curriculum study, and
did not include any reference to the depth and breadth of curricula
in other nations. It is not clear whether, across nations, there is
relationship between the dimensions of curriculum materials utilized
in a nation and the achievement of students in mathematics and
science. Any observed relationship between curriculum and
achievement within a country may differ when looking across
countries. More study of all available data on curriculum in the
participating TIMSS nations is necessary before any definitive
conclusions can be offered. |
| John from Cincinnati, Ohio asked: |
| Have any correlation
studies been done between school attendance (or absence) and results
on NAEP? What do those results show? Have any correlation studies
been done which show the relationship between report card marks and
NAEP results? Have any correlation studies been done which show the
relationship between high-stakes tests and NAEP
results? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for writing in. I really like
technical questions. Some preliminary research, still at the basic
research and development stage, has been conducted looking at the
correlation between school attendance and performance on NAEP; a
negative correlation has been found between them. Studies have not
been done looking at the relationship between report card marks and
NAEP performance. However, data collected in recent NCES high school
transcript studies of high school graduates enable researchers to
look at relationships among factors like NAEP performance on various
subjects, school attendance, course-taking, and grade-point
averages. Where state test frameworks are similar to NAEP
frameworks, some consistency of test results has been
found. |
| Ethan from Monterey, CA asked: |
| What impact is NAEP
expected to have on the development of statewide testing
systems? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
NAEP has established its place at the
national level; its role is complement and supplement state testing
programs. NAEP's outstanding reputation of reliability and validity
stems from its leadership in developing large-scale assessment
methodology and its psychometric sophistication. NAEP strives to
continue fulfilling a leadership role in this area....Thanks for the
question....Gary |
| Nadia from Arlington, VA asked: |
| How do these long-term
trend findings in math and science relate to what is currently being
taught and tested in our schools? Because the several national
standards proposed in the past decade (e.g., by NCTM and by AAAS)
apparently have affected the way math and science are taught in this
country, are the NAEP assessments in math from 1978 (linked back to
1973) and in science from 1977 (linked back to 1969) still relevant?
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| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
This is a good question and it was
brought up at the press conference. I see the long-term trend tests
as measuring the core, basic knowledge and skills we expect students
to know in math and science. These core objectives have really not
changed over the past 30 years. While new national standards in math
and science have been articulated since NAEP originated its trend
studies in 1969, the same basic content in these core subjects is
covered in classroom instruction and assessed in NAEP. Earliest NAEP
results are still relevant but do not provide the same comprehensive
coverage to key subjects that main NAEP
does....Thanks....Gary |
| Sandra Palmer from Gwinnett County , Georgia
asked: |
| What about the Fine
Arts? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
The NAEP Arts Assessment is scheduled
again in 2007. A process report analyzing lessons learned in the
1997 NAEP arts field test is in preparation. It will be a web-based
report and will include released items from the 1997 assessment.
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| Gaylynn from Bismarck, North Dakota
asked: |
| Is there a specific
date set when 2000 State NAEP Mathematics and Science results be
released? If so, what is the date? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
No specific date has been set for
release of the 2000 State NAEP math and science results. But, math
results are expected to be released around April-May 2001 and
science results are expected around August-September 2001.
|
| Marjolaine from Sierra Vista, Arizona
asked: |
| The international
assessments of math and science (e.g., the Third International
Mathematics and Science Study), have been administered over several
years. Does the performance of US students in the international
assessments mirror their performance on the NAEP long-term-trend
math and science tests? If not, what might explain the
differences? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Currently, there is no clear indication
of whether U.S. students in TIMSS mirror students on the NAEP
long-term trend math and science tests. However, in December, NCES
will release the next TIMSS report which may shed some light on the
comparative performance of US students over time in the
international assessments and the performance of students in math
and science in the NAEP long-term trend assessments. Be cautioned
that, even then, significant differences between the two assessment
programs hamper precise comparisons. |
| John from Newark, Delaware asked: |
| What implications do
the trends in reading results have in terms of current needs in
reading instruction? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
NCES simply measures student
achievement in the NAEP reading assessment. Analyzing and
interpreting the implications of reading results in terms of current
needs in reading instruction is more properly the job of experts in
the field of reading instruction. NAEP is a valuable source of
information for that
analysis....Thanks....Gary |
| linda from oklahoma city, ok asked: |
| How might I receive
information concerning the topic if I am not able to participate in
the live StatChat? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Call Peggy Carr at (202) 502 7321 or visit NAEP's website at http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard.
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| Marion from Melbourne, Australia asked: |
| Have there be any
changes in age grade relationships between 1969 and 1999 that could
be related to the relative performance of black and white students
of the same age over time? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for the question.. Yes there
have been a few changes in the modal grade. We are looking into this
to see what effect is
has....Gary |
| Dean from Greenbelt, Maryland asked: |
| Hello Dr. Phillips: Can
you describe to me the application of Metadata standards to NCES
statistical analyses? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
What do you mean by metadata? Are you
referring to meta-analysis?...Gary |
| Haiyan from Cambridge, MA asked: |
| Can you tell us more
about test instruments in these many years and how reliable they are
in measuring the same level of skill and competency?
Thanks. |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
I am not sure what you are getting at
in this question....Can you
clarify?....Gary |
| Lyle from Chapel Hill, NC asked: |
| Will you remind us
about how simimilar the assessment questions are from one assessment
to the next, and whether questions posed for long-term trends
represent early or current educational
standards? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
The questions are identical from year
to year. We have been asking the same questions for the past 30
years. |
| Jill from Oakland asked: |
| Can you please
translate the score gaps between racial subgroups into academic
years? For example, do the scores between black and whites indicate
blacks are two years behind in reading/math/science etc. than
whites? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
We do not have definitive data on this
but as a rule of thumb a 10-12 point difference on the NAEP long
term trend scale is equal to "about" one
year...Gary |
| Cynthia from Austin Texas asked: |
| Are we going to
continue to raise the standards of performance of students, in
particular in mathematics and science? If we are, how will that be
assessed? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
The standards on NAEP are
set by the National Assessment Governing Board. There are no
immdeiate plans to revise these
standards. |
| Kristi from West Sacramento, CA asked: |
| California's student
population is far more diverse than anywhere else in the nation.
What impact might that have on how we interpret the data in your
report? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
NCES provides the data, the software and
the training to analyze the NAEP data from California. |
| Pat from Hopewell, NJ asked: |
| I could use some
clarification about the correlations (the response to John's earlier
question). Are those correlations done at the student, school, or
state level? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Correlations are done at the
student level....Gary |
| Ray Fenton from Anchorage, AK asked: |
| Gary, When we take
students time to take any test, we like to give parents, teachers,
and students the results. Do you see a time when NAEP results will
be available for individuals to be used by parent, teachers, and
schools? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Currently the legislation prohobits the
release of such data. The National Assessment Governing Board is
exploring this and may be making recommendations for reauthorization
in the future..Thanks for your questions I can tell that you know
the NAEP project very well...Gary |
| Paul from Crofton Maryland asked: |
| In your opinion how
well does NAEP control for external factors such as SES and
dissimilar school environments? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
NAEP does not control for these factors
in our official statistical reports. However, we do provide the data
and the software for secondary researchers to do these analyses.
Call Alex Sedlacek at (202) 505 7446 for more
details...Thanks |
| Nada from Arlington, VA asked: |
| An earlier writer asked
if this assessment represented current standards or those of decades
ago -- are the measures reported here in line with today's
standards? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
They are still current because they are
core competencies we expect students to
know....Thanks...Gary |
| Stephen from Austin, TX asked: |
| What is the most
surprising trend you have gleened from your NAEP
analysis? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
The fact that the majority/minority gap
was substantially reduced during the 1980's but now appears to be
widening. This is a hard trend to
explain....Gary |
| Kristin from Pittsburgh, PA asked: |
| If educational
standards have changed in the past 30 years, but the long-term Trend
NAEP questions have remained the same, how informative are the test
results for improving education? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Yes educational standards have
changed over 30 years, but the core knowledge expected of students has
not. That is why we have two types of NAEP assement. One for the
long haul and one related to current
standards....Gary |
| Gary from Cambridge, MA asked: |
| Does NAEP have any
explanation of why the racial gap closed until the mid-80s or early
90s and then either froze or actually began to widen again in
several of the measures? Has any focused research been launched to
explain this reversal? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
I do not really have a good
explanation. We are looking into possible changes in demographics
such as the increase in LEP students and other
factors.....Gary |
| Richard from Portland, OR asked: |
| Do the newest trend
data allow any conclusions about differences between students in
Title I schools and others? Do you see any implications in the data
for the debate on Title I accountability
systems? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
We do not have Title I data in the long
term trend assessments. However, we do have those data in our newer
surveys which will be released next
year...Thanks...Gary |
| Catherine from Atlanta, GA asked: |
| Would you clarify the
differences between the NAEP assessment used to gather trend data
(in which the questions remain constant) and the assessment from
which state results are made available in the different subject
areas(in which questions are modified from year to
year)? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Great question...The newer NAEP
assessments were developed by the National Assessment Governing
Board in the 1990's and are more focused on current reform efforts.
It is on the newer assessments that we have the State-by-State data
and the achievement levels.....Thanks for the
question....Gary |
| Steve from Bangor, ME asked: |
| How are schools
selected to participate in NAEP? If local districts have the choice
to be included or not included, how does this influence
representativeness? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for the question...Schools are
selecerd randomly for the assessment (and so are students). All
participation in NAEP is
voluntary....Gary |
| Kristi from West Sacramento, CA asked: |
| Did the racial gap
appear to be stronger in public or non-public schools?
|
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for the question...We have not
done the analyses for private schools yet. It is planned for an
analyses available on the web at a later
date....Gary |
| Mike from Quantico, Virginia asked: |
| Dr. Phillips, what do
see as the greatest misinterpretation or misuse of the NAEP
results? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for this question....People
often do not realize that NAEP is a sample survey with a margin of
error. So they interpret increases in scores without taking into
account the standard error...Gary |
| George from Homestead, PA asked: |
| How many states
participate in NAEP? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Each year between 39 and 41 States tend
to participate...Thanks for the
question....Gary |
| Bill from Harrisburg PA asked: |
| The long-term trend
data is derived from questions which have remained the same for 30
years. The Report Card data is based on questions which change from
year to year. When these reports show different trends, how do you
reconcile the difference? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for the question.... Actually we
find that they tend to show similar
patterns...Gary |
| Lyle from Chapel Hill, NC asked: |
| The questions have
remained the same for 30 years, but the curricula have been updated
to meet new standards. By asking questions that may have become
"obsolete," might NAEP trend results underestimate achievement
gains? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Hello Lyle...I do not agree. I think
the objectives on the long-term trend represent core knowledge that
students should have and are still relevant today...See you
later....Gary |
| Leslie from Rockville, MD asked: |
| Are there plans to
discontinue the long-term trend assessment in the future? Can the
same information be obtained from short-term trend calculations
using the cross-sectional samples? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Thanks for the question. We plan to
continue doing the long-term trend assessment. There really is no
good technical way to obtain this type of information from the newer
assessment. However, we are exploring all of the
alternatives....Thanks...Gary |
| Paul from Crofton, Maryland asked: |
| Gary, are there any
states that are consistently underrepresented? If this is true, do
you anticipate have any significant affect on overall NAEP results.
|
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Hello Paul...Our national sample
represents all States. Some State (8-10) do not participate in our
State assessments....Gary |
| Karrie from Illinois asked: |
| Can you highlight some
of the trends that have resulted from 30 years of
testing?? |
| Dr. Gary Phillips: |
Math performance is up over the past 30
years at all ages (9, 13 and 17). ...That's all the time we have
today. Thank you for all of your excellent questions. I'm sorry, I
couldn't get to all of them. A transcript of this chat will be
available tomorrow morning (8/25). For further information please
visit the NAEP website at http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard.
...Gary |
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