The Condition of Education, 2001
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Hello, and welcome to today’s
StatChat. The Condition of Education, 2001 was released last
Thursday, May 31. I hope you’ve had a chance to download the report
from the website and I’m sure you’ll have many questions. Let’s get
right to them. |
John from Okatie, SC asked: |
For thse of us who will
be unable to be online at the appointed hour, will NCES provide some
kind of a transcript online which, at a later date, one can review
the questions and answers? |
John Wirt: |
Good question, John. Yes, NCES will
post a transcript online of today's chat. It can be found at
http://nces.ed.gov/whatsnew/statchat/ Transcripts of other recent StatChats can
also be found on this page. |
Erin from El Centro, CA asked: |
How much money do most
high schools receive from the government? |
John Wirt: |
NCES publishes data on the amount of
revenues received from the federal government by elementary and
secondary school districts in a report on Federal Support for
Education, which you can find at http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2000068 The Common Core
of Data has information on the funds received by school districts
from both the federal government and the states. One such report is
"Statistics in Brief: Revenues and Expenditures for Public
Elementary and Secondary Education: School Year 1997-98." You can also
find tables of revenues by source and expenditures by function in
the 2000 Digest of Educational Statistics (see pp. 175-192).
Unfortunately, the data are not split out according to the level of
schooling in any of these reports. This is not included in NCES's
reporting requirements and it would be difficult for most school
districts to report either expenditures or revenues by level. Many
district expenditures are not divisible by level. A simple example
would be the superintendent's salary. |
Max from Arlington, VA asked: |
What are the
proportions of children--by race/ethnicity and by low-income and
non-low-income--which arrive at school not ready to
learn? |
John Wirt: |
Indicator 8 in the Condition of Education 2001 shows how large the
differences in reading and mathematics scores of children entering
kindergarten are according to their mother's educational level, as one
measure of students who are at risk of not succeeding in school. Children
whose mothers have less than a high school education score about one
standard deviation lower than children whose mothers have completed college.
The data in this indicator come from the Early Childhood Longitudinal Study.
To find out the percentages of students who start behind compared to the
highest performing students by mother's education, by race, or by income -
as different measures of being at risk -- I suggest you look in the first
major report from the ECLS, on "Entering Kindergarten, which can be found at
http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2001035. You can also look
at indicators 26 in the Condition of Education 2000, which shows the
percentages of kindergarteners who "persist at tasks," are "eager to learn,"
and "pay attention," as rated by their kindergarten teachers. Differences in
these percentages are shown by mother's education, race/ethnicity, and sex.
It is important not to equate having lower skills with "not being able to
learn," since indicator 8 shows that average skills in reading and
mathematics increase through kindergarten and first grade for children by
about as much among children whose mothers have less than a high school
education and those whose mothers have completed college.
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Larry from Morehead, Ky asked: |
Can we begin to assess
the information literacy of students from these
data? |
John Wirt: |
I am not sure what data you are
refering to other than the Condition of Education report as a whole.
So far NCES has not supported any assessments of information
technology skills. We do have data on the extent of computer and
Internet use among students. See the list of indicators in the Condition of Education in |
Robert from Little Rock AR asked: |
Is there info available
of the effect of federal and/or state financial aid on graduation
rates? e.g. grad rates for Pell recipients vs. grad rates for
control group with like characteristics but without Pell
grants? |
John Wirt: |
Robert, you have stumped the band. NCES
currently does not have any studies of this issue but one is
underway. One of the problems is defining the appropriate comparison.
Low income students are all eligible for Pell grants,
so the low income students who don't get them is small and probably
not otherwise comparable to those who do. In our current study we
are comparing them to middle income students and finding that they
do just as well, but this is not ready for publication
yet. |
Chris from Portland, Oregon asked: |
It would really be
helpful if you could provide state rankings. Is there any plan to do
so? |
John Wirt: |
We have considered state rankings but
space is limited in the Condition of Education and state tables
occupy quite a bit of real estate. I will consider including some
comparative state information in next year's Condition of Education,
but meanwhile you might want to look at a new web page created by
the NAEP folks here at NCES. It's very good. They show state
profiles for all the states with NAEP data.
http://nces.ed.gov/nationsreportcard/states You might also want to
check out some good information provided by the Council of Chief
State School Officers at http://www.ccsso.org/pdfs/KeyState2000.pdf
Education Week at http://www.edweek.com also does an annual report comparing
the states in a variety of ways, often using NCES
data. |
Kevin from Jackson, Miss. asked: |
What are the different
comparisons you can provide for international statistics? Are there
items on teachers for example? |
John Wirt: |
Kevin, NCES collects data on
international comparisons using multiple surveys and assessments.
The Digest of Education Statistics contains information on
population, enrollments, achievement, degrees, and finances. See
http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d01/lt6.asp for more information. In
addition, the Third International Mathematics and Science
Study-Repeat collected data on student performance, mathematics and
science teachers, and several other background characteristics. See
http://nces.ed.gov/timss/ for more information.
Indicator 43 in the Condition of Education 2001 (see section 4 in
the PDF) provides the main results from TIMSS-R on
teachers. |
Larry Besant from Morehead, Ky asked: |
Can you draw any
conclusions regarding the "condition of libraries" from the 59
indicators in the latest report? |
John Wirt: |
No, there are no indicators in the
Condition of Education 2001 on libraries. A major report on
libraries will be released by NCES in the next few months. Sign up
for the NCES' NewsFlash to be notified when this
report is released. With the release of the report we may include an
indicator on libraries in the Condition of Education next
year. |
Linda W. Stokes from Washington, DC
asked: |
Did your study look at
the student financial aid programs and the various students that
benefit from these programs. |
John Wirt: |
By students who are “receiving
federal/state financial assistance,” I presume you mean student
financial aid to attend postsecondary education. One good source for
this this information is "Student Financing of Undergraduate
Education: 1995-96, With an Essay on Student Loans" and a similar report on graduate
education. Within a few
months results will be available from NPSAS 2000 to update the
information you will find in this report. Fifty percent of
undergraduates (p. 34) and 52 percent of graduate/first-professional
students (p. 54) received some type of financial aid in 1995-96. The
reports present detailed information on the types and amounts of aid
received, broken down by a variety of student and institutional
characteristics. |
Betty from Syracuse, New York asked: |
Do all of these
indicators get updated on an annual basis? Do you ever change what
you are measuring? |
John Wirt: |
All indicators published in the
Condition of Education use the latest available data. Each year
there are a certain number of indicators that we have published before
and some that are new. In the last few years there have been quite a
few new indicators. To some extent the availability of new data
determines what indicators we include. |
A.R. from Eclectic, AL. asked: |
How best, without being
antagonistic, can a parent get teachers and adminstration to comply
(fully implement) an IEP and applicable law? |
John Wirt: |
First, I suggest you speak with the
special education department in your local school district to see if
you can find someone who will respond. Many school districts have a
special education ombudsman, one whose primary responsibility
is to assist parents in IEP implementation. If you don't get
satisfaction there, call the special education division in your state
department of education and find someone who can assist you. If none
of these avenues work, you could contact the federal Office of
Special Education Programs. A person whom you
could contact is Ruth Ryder, Director of the State Improvement
Plans Division at 202 205-5547. |
Linda from Greensburg, Pennsylvania
asked: |
Why do you predict that
future growth in undergraduate education is expected to be greater
in full-time and 4-year enrollments - even though your study shows
that part-time and 2-year enrolments have grown more
rapidly? |
John Wirt: |
This is a good question. As you can see
from the graph in indicator 2, 2-year and part-time enrollments grew
faster than 4-year and full-time enrollment in the 1970s, but in the
1980 and 1990s their was little difference. In the coming decade,
4-year and full-time enrollments are expected to grow faster than
part-time and 2-year enrollments. The reason for this is primarily
the growth in the size of the youth population relative to older
individuals due to the baby boom echo. Currently the baby boom echo
is boosting enrollments in high schools. Younger students have
always tended to enroll in 4-year programs at higher rates than
older individuals, so as these younger students increase in numbers
in the population, the enrollment rates in 4-year institutions
will grow. Also, the high rate of return on four years of college
education (increased earnings of college graduates) is probably
encouraging even higher proportions of these younger students to
attend 4-year colleges rather than 2-year colleges. Technically, the
projections shown in indicator 2 are driven by (1) current
enrollment trends, (2) the known size of population cohorts, and (3)
some assumptions that are built into the projection models about
alternative economic scenarios.
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Mike from Honolulu, HI asked: |
The NCES reports that
I've looked at lately say "available online only," including
Condition of Ed. If I wish to look up a couple of facts, that's
fine, but to view it substantively, I need hard copy. Please--what's
the holdup on printing NCES publications? Many
thanks! |
John Wirt: |
For the Condition of Education we opted
to release the report as soon as we finished the review process and
prepared the files for the printer rather than wait for the report
to be printed. The report was released on May 31 and printed copies
will be available about July 13. Everyone who has placed an advanced
order with ED Pubs at : 877-4-ED-PUBS will receive their printed
copy shortly after that. |
Jon from Rockville MD asked: |
Who is Susan Choy and
why does her essay on Postsecondary Access, Persistence, and
Attainment not include the effects of student financial aid
programs? May I guess that she is a contractor and that there is too
little evaluation material on financial aid access programs to draw
any conclusions? This is not to say her essay is bad; it is very
good as far as it goes. |
John Wirt: |
Susan Choy is the main author of
sections 3 and 5 in the Condition of Education 2001, as well as the
essay, and over the years has authored numerous NCES reports. She is
Vice President of MPR Associates in California and has published a
lot of research on postsecondary education and many other areas in
the course of her career. In the conclusion of the essay readers are
explicitly cautioned not to misinterpret the findings reported in
the essay as meaning that the rates of enrollment are unaffected by
student aid or family income levels. The essay goes to some lengths
to point out where analyses have shown the “independent effect”
(emphasis added) of coursetaking and the other variables considered
taking family income into account. The availability of student aid
and family income may also independently affect the enrollment rates
of first generation students but this would be difficult to examine
with the NCES data sources that are currently available and on which
the essay is based. One of these data sets is NELS:88 and it
contains no information on aid offered and received. The
postsecondary longitudinal studies used (BPS and B&B) did not
track students in high school. |
Simon from Las Cruces, NM asked: |
Are these indicators
similar to the types of indicators that are put out by the Bureua of
Labor Statistics? Can you actually project the change or the trends
over time? |
John Wirt: |
Simon, the indicators in this report
are similar to those published by the Bureau of Labor Statistics in
that they are based on nationally representative surveys. In
addition, some indicators use economic data. In particular, the
indicator projecting higher education enrollment is based on
economic scenarios using data on the performance of the economy, as
I mentioned before in response to another
question. |
Marta from Middletown,Ct asked: |
What is the rate of
dropouts in Europe? |
John Wirt: |
An estimate of dropout rates
internationally can be found in indicator 32 in the COE2001. That
indicator shows the years of education completed in different
population age groups across countries. The dropout rate in those
countries is 1.0 minus the secondary school completion rate for
24-35 years, as shown in table 32-1. What these data show is that
the dropout rates - or, technically the attainment rates - are
currently about the same in major industrialized countries (Germany,
Japan, France, etc.) For information about the attainment rates in
other countries see the publication “Education at a Glance”
published by the Organization for Cooperation and Economic
Development (). Attainment rates
provide a good measure of the dropout rate except to the extent that
a country has a large number of immigrants who have never enrolled
in the country's school system. In comparing attainment levels
across countries it is important to remember that the school systems
are very different across countries. “High school completion” in the
U.S. does not mean the same thing as the completion of secondary
school in other countries, where students have so many different
paths they can follow. |
Patrick from Ft. Myers, Florida asked: |
What concerns me about
American education is the lack of equity and equality. We test all
students with the same statewide standardized tests, but we spend
different amounts of money on their education. It is a basic
unfairness that structures PUBLIC education so that rich parents
kids get great schools, but poor parents kids get awful schools. Why
isn't this more generally understood, and
rectified? |
John Wirt: |
This is a major issue in American
education. We have some information on this issue in the COE2001 in
indicator 56, where we show the differences in funding among schools
in central cities, suburban, and rural areas, but there is more
information that we should provide. Your question prompts me to
consider including more indicators on funding inequality in
education next year. Last year we had an indicator (COE 2000 #64)
that compared the differences in educational expenditures per
student among states. That indicator shows that the disparities
within states have decreased some in the last few years but the
difference between states have grown. There is a full NCES report by
Bill Sonnenberg and Bill Hussar on this issue () that you may want to read. The Office of Research in the Department of Education has a research center on finance issues that you may wish
to examine: HTTP://cpre www.gse.upenn.edu. Also please see NCES's
own EDFIN center HTTP://nces.ed.gov/edfin. |
Rob from Austin, Texas asked: |
I noticed that 2 of
your outcome indicators talked about women getting more degrees and
still earning less than men, and that their is still a gap in many
levels between blacks, whites and hispanics. What's being done to
change these situations? |
John Wirt: |
There are a number of programs
sponsored by the federal government, foundations, and the College
Board to encourage black students, low income students, and others
who might ordinarily not enroll in college to prepare themselves to
enroll and to aid them in enrolling. |
Eric from New York, NY asked: |
What is the status of
bringing technology into the classroom? Where do you feel it needs
to grow to? What organizations are there that control technology
based funding for schools (like E-rate)? Where can I get more
information on the subject? |
John Wirt: |
There are a number of NCES reports on
the status of technology in the schools. If you go to the Electronic
Catalog on the home page and search using the term "technology" you
will find several of the latest reports on technology that should
answer your questions. The most recent being the one found at: http://nces.ed.gov/pubsearch/pubsinfo.asp?pubid=2001071I only have time for one more
question. |
Jerry from Rockville, MD asked: |
Do you think that there
will ever come a time when the higher education indicators will
somehow be incorporated in the US News & World Report rankings
of Universities and Colleges. |
John Wirt: |
Good last question. In general, when
NCES develops indicators we strive to report on important
developments and trends in American education. We do not attempt to
rate individual schools, colleges, or universities. However, many
outside organizations find our data useful, and often use them for
other purposes, such as ranking schools. We are not involved in this
process, but hope that the data are useful to policymakers,
educators, parents, and families. |
Thank you for all of
your questions. Some of the questions suggest good ideas that will
be used in planning next year’s edition. Unfortunately, I could not
get to all the questions but you can reach me by email at john.wirt@ed.gov in case I missed
yours. I hope you found this session and the report to be useful.
See you again next year at about this same time for a StatChat Live
on the Condition of Education,
2002. |
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